here is my mike here. you say -- >> t.j. >> and you say -- >> you suck. >> wow. from the family. that was harsh. what did you learn today? >> i'm going to delete that. >> what can you do? >> that hurts. >> don't feel bad. >> listen, thank you so much, guys, for being with us. if it's with a too early it's "morning joe." stick around for the guy that all the seniors on capitol hill love, luke russert. opening up behind closed doors, a week after resigning as head of the cia over an extramarital affair david petraeus heads to both sides of capitol hill this morning for hearings on what happened in the leadup and aftermath of the september attack that killed four americans in libya. meanwhile, at the other end of pennsylvania avenue, president obama gets ready to sit down with congressional leaders from both parties to try to figure out the fiscal cliff.

is speaker boehner ready to make a deal anytime soon? plus, major news for big business. the justice department hits bp with the biggest criminal penalty ever assessed on a corporation for the 2010 gulf oil spill. and so much for the ideas that twinkies last forever. bankruptcy breaks a big-time baker. good morning from washington. it's friday, november 16, 2012. this is "the daily rundown." i'm luke russert in for chuck todd who hasn't worked hard enough at all this entire election campaign, he's now going to asia to cover the president's trip. former cia director david petraeus will testify in the benghazi attacks before the senate intelligence committee. he just wrapped up testifying on the house side. petraeus' questioning comes as he now finds himself under investigation by the agency he once led. acting director michael morell has ordered the inspector general to investigate whether he used agency resources including security details,

private jets, and special accommodations to facilitate his affair with paula broadwell. officials say the cia has been told by the fbi that there is no indication petraeus misused classified material, but the investigation is open ended. today's hearing will not focus on that investigation, however. instead, lawmakers will question petraeus about the september 11th attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. >> director petraeus went to tripoli. he interviewed many of the people, as i understand it, that were involved. and so the opportunity to get his views, i think, are very important -- is very important. the purpose of this hearing is benghazi. we're not going in to the fbi investigation or the inspector general or anything else. this is benghazi. >> on thursday in a briefing which stretched more than three and a half hours, intelligence officials showed lawmakers real time film of the attack for the

first time. >> the film is a composite from a number of sources. it is real time. it does begin from when the incident started and it goes through the incident. and the exodus. >> attorney general eric holder is defending the fbi publicly for the first time as some lawmakers say the agency was too slow to inform them and the president of the petraeus investigation. >> we follow the facts. we do not share outside the justice department, outside the fbi the facts of ongoing investigations. we made the determination as we were going through the matter that there was not a threat to national security. >> joining me now nbc's capitol hill correspondent kelly

o'donnell and, kelly, a lot of moving parts on capitol hill this morning. what questions are lawmakers interested in putting to petraeus? any new information out of the house hearing? obviously it's all classified, but what do we know? >> reporter: well, luke, the classified part of it makes it difficult. but what lawmakers are able to talk about is sort of the nature of what they wanted to find out. we've just moments ago seen some of the senate members making their way to the hearing for the second part of petraeus' day and a lot of what we've heard is wanting to know about the time line. what was happening? what was the understanding of then director of the cia petraeus about what caused this attack? what happened with the spontaneous demonstration, sort of the storyline that was first put the out, and why was that ever developed when we understand that fairly quickly there was some indication and evidence that it was a more organized, more sophisticated terrorist attack? what we heard from some members is they sort of saw the attack unfolding in two parts with an

initial assault and then a more sophisticated attack. >> and i believe we're going to dip in right now to house home lapped security chairman peter king who is talking about the intel briefing. let's listen in. >> and it was not a terrorist attack and i pointed out the following week when matt olsen said it was, it made headlines because until then the administration was say iing it s not terrorist. again, it was very cordial, if you will. general petraeus is an outstanding patriot. we shook hands before and jach wards. we all thanked them for their service. but he was, i think, has a different impression of the impression he left on september 14th. >> can you tell us whether or not his affair or the security surrounding his affair came up at all? >> only he was asked at the start did that have any impact on his testimony, and he said no.

>> how were the talking points different? >> the original talking points were much more specific about al qaeda involvement. and the final ones indications of extremists. to indicate though it was clearly evident to the cia that there was al qaeda involvement. >> did you get any idea why? >> they just said it goes through a long process, an interagency process. and when they came back -- >> did he seem concerned things had been changed? it did that surprise him? >> at the time they didn't realize the full significance of that, and that for an unclassified statement, this was acceptable. it's still very vague. >> was petraeus under oath? >> no. there's no oath given, no. >> mr. king, did you allay any of your concerns? are you satisfied with the presentation he made today? >> i'm satisfied with the ultimate conclusion he reached. i told him i honestly disagreed with his recollection of what he told us on september 14. >> what did he say about the

affair with paula broadwell? >> no comments. not at all. >> did that make it hard to get past that because of the salacious details have dominated the news, hard to get down to brass taxes? >> no. it was made clear at the start there would not be the focus of the questioning and i would say ten seconds into it that was off to the side. >> any reason you all wanted to hear from him because since he briefed you the first time, he went to libya. [ inaudible ] perhaps you can tell us what he learned after baeg on the ground? >> no, that would all be classified other than the fact that he now clearly believed -- did not arise out of a demonstration. was not spontaneous and it was clear terrorist involvement. >> he said that straight out? >> yes. [ inaudible ] you know, this is ongoing. obviously the secretary of state, secretary of defense, and also people at the white house to see if anyone changed the

talking points. >> do you think you'll hear from him again on this and also did -- >> we'll have to see. one day at a time. >> he still couldn't provide any explanation, though, as to why -- [ inaudible ] today there's no explanation? >> no, there are many streams of intelligence, but he also stated that he thought all along he made it clear that there was significant terrorist involvement and that is not my recollection of what he told us on september 14. >> and, kelly, some interesting comments there from peter king saying that david petraeus left a different impression this time around than he did on september 14. >> reporter: luke, we thought we were going to get more clarity and in just those initial comments it seems there will be new questions. is there a difference in perception about what david petraeus, when he originally briefed lawmakers in the days right after the attack and what he is saying now? also, a key question that certainly republicans will be

talking about, did the white house change the talking points? and the talking points is a reference to what susan rice said on a round of morning talk shows just a few days after the attacks that sort of cemented this idea in the initial days that this spontaneous demonstration that officials now say did not exist was a reason for what took place and susan rice at the time also said the intelligence was not fully processed. what we've heard from democrats is this idea that there were sort of two waves of an attack and that sort of supports what they think susan rice and the white house was talking about in the first two weeks. we heard more of this this morning on "morning joe" with our friends there, and chambliss, the republican on the senate side in charge of the intelligence community. here is what he talked about with respect to were the talking points given to susan rice based on classified information, unclassified information, or was there some political overlap? >> we spent an awful lot of time on these talking points.

the one thing i can tell you a long time before unclassified talking points are put out by the intelligence community. that probably was a mistake, but susan rice was sent to give a white house message. it was not an intelligence community message. >> reporter: and so as we hear more through the day, luke, about what petraeus has said, if more lawmakers give us their impression, key to see if there was a discrepancy, a misconception. that seems to be what the story of the day will be for petraeus' testimony so far. luke? >> fascinating, fascinating stuff, kelly. you're going to have fun paying attention to with where this one weaves. take it easy. >> reporter: thanks, luke. as the president and congressional leaders kick off negotiations this morning on the fiscal cliff, some republican governors are softening their language on taxes suggesting gop

leaders in congress should stay open to raising tax rates in exchange for entitlement reform. nbc senior political editor mark murray is here with this morning's first read. gop softening a little bit, mark? >> luke, this is a significant development. you've been on capitol hill for quite a while now and republicans are always usually lock step in policy fights. normally it's the democrats on one side or actually the other and the fact you have some republican governors, virginia governor bob mcdonald, former mississippi governor haley barbour essentially saying, you know what, maybe we do need to reconsider having taxes go up for the wealthy as long as we get something in return. and i can guarantee the white house and president obama may show those quotes of john boehner and eric cantor. >> haley barbour on taxes, and this is from the republican governors association meeting in la las vegas. quote, if there's enough

savings, if there's enough certainty about tax reform the next few years, i would, former governor haley barbour said when asked whether his party should consider softening its opposition to letting the bush tax cuts on the wealthiest expire. i mean, that's just an amazing, amazing, amazing switch from where we even were on the campaign trail last week. >> well, that's right, luke. and also governor bob mcdonnell said something else. elections have consequences and that, of course, was a line republicans used in 2011 during the debt ceiling negotiations as well as all of the other times they were actually trying to trim the budget deficit saying, look, this is why we were elected in 2010 to come and do this. now president obama has that same argument in 2012. look, the presidential contest was fought on the contours of raising taxes on the wealthy. i won. now it's time to negotiate. >> the romney campaign had its final autopsy call, if you will, the governor with his big national fund-raisers. saying the reason he lost was that the president and the

democrats gave a lot of handouts to specific special interest groups saying they were free gifts, the reason he was re-elected. republicans did not take too kindly to mr. romney's words. i want to play what bobby jindal and kelly ayotte said. >> this is completely unhelpful. this is not where the republican party needs to go. if you want voters to like you, the first thing you have to do is to like them first and it's certainly not helpful to tell voters that you think their votes were bought. >> i don't agree with the comments. i think the campaign is over and what the voters are looking for us to do is to accept their votes and then go forward. >> don't let the door hit you on the way out. this shows you that mitt romney's time as the leader of the republican party was very, very brief and he's probably not going to have much of a voice as the republican party goes forward. of course that's similar to what happened to john kerry after he lost in 2004. as well as even john mccain when he lost in 2008.

when you often lose people are looking forward to the next thing. >> this one seems like a real complete discard. kerry and mccain had a role in the senate and at least foreign policy expertise. this says please don't talk to us again. mark murray, thanks for being here. up next live to gaza. plus, what really happens if we go over the fiscal cliff. we have two of the smartest guys in washington to game out the cliff what ifs. but first a lackook ahead at th president's schedule. big meeting at 10:15 a.m. how i wish i could be a fly on the wall there. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life.

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developing news out of tel aviv are where explosions were heard this morning. israel media is reporting hamas rockets struck near the southern part of the city. a sign of the conflict between israel and gaza continues to escalate. live in gaza, what's happening there today? >> reporter: well, luke, let's start with some of the developments here inside gaza. a short while ago the prime minister wrapped up a visit after visiting the main hospital here, leading a high delegation of cabinet ministers that came to express solidarity with the people and try to calm the situation here on the ground. but shortly after arriving there were israeli air strikes in gaza. there were also palestinian rockets that were fired into southern israel. that didn't hold. there was no ceasefire. it really didn't give it a

chance to even succeed. he has now left the gaza strip. as you could probably hear from the noise behind me a short while ago there was a reassumption of air strikes in the territory and palestinian rockets being fired. it is a sign that the ongoing conflict shows no sign of ending anytime soon. in terms of the humanitarian situation here in gaza, it is a very precarious one. the people here extremely anxious, very nervous about a possible ground invasion. the way gaza is, it's a densely populated area. when israel carries out the air strikes, it is almost unavoidable that there are going to be civilians who are bearing the brunt of it so there's no doubt that for the people here the situation remained extremely tense and very volatile on both sides. luke? >> ayman, thank you for joining us and stay safe. the president meets with congre congressional leaders to discuss the fiscal cliff about an hour from now. here is a refresher about what's at stake. if no deal is struck, tax rates for all americans will rise.

the lowest going from 10% to 15%. the highest from 35% to nearly 40%. the automatic spending cuts congress agreed to last year kick in. $600 billion in defense cuts. $600 billion in discretionary spending cuts over the next nine years. the payroll tax holiday ends pushing the rate up 2% essentially $1,000 hike on someone making $50,000 a year. the alternative minimum tax would kick in costing an estimated 28 million americans about $3,700 each. and a host of tax deductions either shrink or disappear completely. from the child tax credit to the estate tax exemption. that's a lot. joining me now the economics correspondent for the national journal and u.s. economics editor for the economist. gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me. i should sell tickets to this. there's so much brain power here. as you saw, a lot to get

through. i want to go through a few scenarios. let's go through the first scenario which is actually falling off the cliff. what type of effect would that have for the economy? i'll start with you, jim? >> if if we fall off the cliff and stay off, it's absolutely going to push us back into another recession because we are going to see the spending cuts and the tax increases take a big bite in fiscal policy from our gdp growth and we're not in a great place to start with. so if we fall off and they can't come to it a deal later, are right away it's probably not terrible but the longer it persists, the chances of another recession. >> and europe does not want to see that, i presume. >> i think you've actually had a preview of what's going to happen. every time there has been a sign of flexibility in the preliminary chatter of the last week, the market goes down. it's now off around 5%. businesses are cutting back significantly on investment plans waiting for the outcome. i've spent the last week talking to a lot of folks in the market. their assumption is we get past the fiscal cliff whether it's kick the can, grand bargaining.

if it doesn't, then the market is not ready for that. >> another scenario out there is the soft landing, which is what congress is notorious for, which is a partial compromise to perhaps avert the worst of this and slightly kick the can down the road. how do you see the markets reacting to that, jim? >> i think the markets would like that much better than a hard landing right off the cliff. i think the questions you would have there would be even long term. the questions would be, what does this mean for our credit rating if we aren't taking serious steps to bring down the long-term deficit? what are the possibility of markets thinking, hab, maybe they are only going to do what's necessary in the short term but in the long run we still have this big gap that they're not serious about filling? >> i completely agree with what he said there. the markets would love to see over the long term all of this uncertainty just alleviated for a five to ten-year period. at the same time that the debt

is brought under control. from what we've seen from the president over the last week, it doesn't look like kicking the can is an option he is willing to live with. he has talked about getting a big deal, about his opening r revenue number $1.6 trillion. it looks to me at least from what we've seen so far kick the can and not doing a big deal is not on the table. >> let's talk about that. obviously it's something the president wants to have for his presidency. as for speaker boehner i know they would personally like to make this time of deal. assuming the grand bargain happens, you can't get it done in a lame duck session, at least you move forward there, grand bargain, is this something that safbs the u.s. from this debt we've inflicted on ourselves for so long, where people stand up and notice it or would there still be the naysayers out there that say it still is not enough. what do you think? >> i think a true grand bargain would be a really great confidence signal to markets. now i don't think it's the solution for our short term growth problems because right now borrowing is cheap and we

don't have a debt problem dragging on our economy right now but if we're looking at freeing up investment, freeing up hiring over the medium and long terms, absolutely the markets would love that. >> i think, also, the biggest negative domestically generated is the perpetual fights of brinksmanship, government shutdown, debt ceiling. a grand bargain that if it did nothing else put off those types of fights for the foreseeable future would be a huge confidence builder. you would see the market rally on that. >> grover nor quist had something interesting to say about this to chuck todd in an ideas forum yesterday. i want to play that. >> once you've passed a tax increase, you say, well, we taxed the rich and we're still billions out of whack, then they turn on the middle class. that's always been the history of trickle down taxation. promise to tax the rich people and go for everybody. why? because that's where the real money is. >> being in washington, getting

a sense of the politics of the place, obviously you are steeped in the economics. do you think the political will exists to get this done deep down? you hear grover norquist there saying it's going to turn from tax heights on the rich to tax heights on the middle class. you've seen the gains on capitol hill. do you think it will get done? >> i think there's a bargain that can get done. there's a bargain that takes more tax revenue both from tax reform and raising rates on the rich and then some changes to entitlement programs, wage indexes -- price indexes for social security, some changes to medicare, that would bend the cost curve of medicare in particular as a program and that would bring down spending over time. i think that's absolutely achievable especially in this sort of post election atmosphere we have right now. >> and i think that grover norquist is playing the weaker and weaker hand. a bunch of newly elected didn't sign his pledge. there's a bunch of other

republicans who disavowed the pledge. you listen to what the folks in the senate are saying. they think there's enough votes on the republican side to given the president what he wants on higher tax revenue so, yeah, i think that things have changed a lot, a lot has changed in the republican caucus. is it still tough? as you know very well there's a big core of conservative people on the house side who will not vote for tax increases of any kind. i'm with jim. the political had will is here in a way that it hasn't been in some time. >> it's going to be fascinating to see, as i told you before the show. watch out for the republican study committee folks in the house. that's that group, how can can they kill a deal will be the most interesting thing. thanks so much for being on the show. we appreciate it. up next, bp's day of reckoning for the gulf oil disaster. plus, sad news for snack cake lovers everywhere. twinkies may last forever but the company making them will not. what brought this iconic american business down? that's next. but first today's trivia question, this is a really good

one. since 1860, how many republican and democratic presidential candidates have lost the general election twice in a row? tweet us. the first correct answer will get a follow friday from us. into their work,

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bp has agreed to pay the government 4dz.5 billion and plead guilty to a dozen felony charges in connection to the massive gulf oil spill in 2010. >> there are penalties that are historic in nature. the company has pled guilty to criminal felony charges,

manslaughter, individuals have been charged as well. everything that we are capable of doing from the criminal sphere we have done today and this is unprecedented. >> pete williams is nbc's justice correspondent. and it's the biggest criminal penalty ever assess ed on a corporation that bp may have to do more down the line. is that correct? >> they have by no means closed their checkbook. this is a very big fine. they have several things to resolve. first, a settlement with individuals -- remember, there was a big claim came out, a big claim payout, i should say. that was for people who wanted to take advantage of the fund. but if people wanted to sue, they have all come together. there's a huge case down in louisiana. that could be a billion. and then there is still the separate question of civil fines imposed by the government and that could be the biggest penalty of all. they could range anywhere from, say, $4 billion to $5 billion up to $20 billion. that will determine how serious

the final did decision is about bp's misconduct. so there's a lot more checks to write. this is a significant criminal penalty. they agree to manslaughter, indicted two of the senior rig people who were there for manslaughter. they have charged a former bp executive with lying to congress about how bad the spill was. >> well, it seems tony hayward will not be getting his life back as he so famously said. >> he has it back in spades because he's gone. bp has been restructuring since. they've been selling off assets to get the money to pay all these penalties. they've been downsizing. nonetheless, the total criminal penalty amount is still less than the amount of money bp earned in the last quarter. >> unbelievable. pete williams, thank you for coming in here. >> you bet. it's the end of an era and a sad good-bye to a staple from many of our childhoods. hostess brand maker of twinkies, devil dogs and wonder bread

announ announced it's closing its doors for good. cnbc's becky quick joins us now. i wasn't allowed to get twinkies when i was a young kid but, becky, what happened there? >> they were big in my house along with susie qs and along with every other cupcake you can think of. it's a surprise not only to those of us who grew up with these brands but to those employed at hostess brands because they all learned today that most of them will be losing their jobs. the company says it's trying to sell off brands and lick with which date the company, firing all the employees and doing this because of a general strike declared. this is interesting because this is not a clear cut line of management versus the unions. there are 12 different unions at hostess brands and most unions agreed with the company to go along with the cuts they were asking for in terms of pay cuts that amounted to 4% over the next four years of the contract. they were looking at pension cuts and at work changes so trucks could take more than just bread, but bread and cupcakes at the same time.

they were going to get a 25% ownership, $100 million in debt from the newly formed hostess brands but it was the bakers union that represents about 30% of those employees that refused to go along be a went on strike. this is a very different situati situation. the teamsters had signed off on the situation. it makes for kind of a surprising end to what happened. this company is going to be selling those brands, closing the doors. 18,500 people losing their jobs so this is an incredibly sad story and, luke, we'll see what happens to twinkies and the other brands down the road. >> it's always sad to see jobs lost because of internal union strike. thank you for being on the show. we appreciate it. up next, the bargain iing process begins. congressional leaders are expected to arrive any minute now at the white house to talk about the fiscal cliff.

just about 45 minutes from now congressional leaders kick off formal negotiations on the fiscal cliff at the white house. nbc's mike viqueira is there for us right now. mike, can we expect to get a blueprint, some sort of number that republicans and democrats will work towards over these next furious weeks to january 2 or will it be, oh, we came here, we're friendly and now we're going to go home? >> reporter: i think we're still in the exhibition season and this is a photo-op in the oval office. all the leaders sitting

together. really this negotiation will come down to the white house and republicans, john boehner in particular. i think the white house and democrats see squjohn boehner i hot water and are fixing to make a stew. i mean, pick another analogy the republicans have been routed. have lost the battle on election day. now democrats are pressing their advantage and routing the enemy as they are trying to regroup. i mean, there's a lot of talk. the tax rate is set to go up on the wealthiest americans. the top tax rate 35% at the end of the year, 39.6%. some people saying there's a middle ground. the problem with that, luke, you were discussing with greg there was a significant number, a majority of house republicans who are not going to go along with any tax rate hike whatsoever and that puts john boehner in an extremely difficult position and on the other hand the president in order to get a deal if there is to be a deal is going to have to make some sort of promise on

entitlements. it will have to be firm in order to get any significant republican support but that's going to lose him democrats. so it's the usual balancing act here, turning the dial trying to find the right chemistry to get something through congress, luke. >> it will be tight. it will be tight and the president goes to asia soon so he'll be away from the fray. mike viqueira from the white house, thanks so much for being here. the same people who tried to broker a deficit deal before the election are back at it today for the first time since the votes were cast on election day. how will the president and congressional leaders approach the same problem in a different political atmosphere? joining me now, republican congressman from oregon, the newly elected chairman of the national republican congressional committee, greg wal den. thank you for being with us. the big fiscal meeting at the white house, obviously you're close with speaker boehner. do you think there's any hope that from today we could get an idea of a central blueprint,

they're all going to try to work around, the central blueprint compromise for the fiscal cliff? >> it would be nice to come out with a framework to reach a solution to the nation's problems. i don't think anybody expects the president after being re-elected to suddenly retreat from his principles and i can't imagine they would expect republicans to retreat from theirs. in the middle we can find mutual agreement and i think common ground. the nation wants it. they expect it. they deserve it. that's what they elect us to do. hopefully this will be the beginning of finding some solutions to enormous problems we face. >> it's interesting in terms of common ground because some of your colleagues re-elected really do believe that they were sent to washington to continue to fight. they have the last few years. from utah, jason chaf its said this. i want to play it and get your reaction. >> pretty much every republican congressman -- so would you be fine doing a compromise you

would go against your signature on that pledge? >> i do not intend to do that. i want to fight for the principles i believe in. i, too, was elected. >> you hear, i, too, was elected. almost saying that it's the equivalent of the president being re-elected. is that going to be a problem in terms of trying to get a grand bargain? >> well, luke, as i said, i don't think anybody would expect the president to run away from his principles or republicans newly elect ed to the house to jettison their principals. in between that, though, if it's about trying to get government back to where we can afford it, generate revenues by creating new jobs and closing loopholes in the tax code, there would be a piece of it. i think we can find common ground. we get hung up on what somebody says here or there and saying if you don't abandon your principles then there's no solution, i think that's the wrong course of action. let's get a framework in place. see what we can do to find common ground and get to an answer here. it won't be easy but if the problems were easy they would have been resolved long ago.

if we get hung up over saying, oh, you have to abandon your principles, mr. president, or republicans, you have to abandon yours, then we're going nowhere. i think that's a cul-de-sac, a dead end street. >> pacific northwest pragmatism there. question for you, as nrcc chairman, one of your chief responsibilities is the recruitment of members to run in 2014. you guys obviously if you look at the demographics of the country, took a real shellacking. how intent are the recruit many efforts going to be from you to try to get folks that look more like america and not be as white as the republican party is? >> you know, one of the ironies of this election outcome at least right now some of our latino members, some of our women members and perhaps the african-american members which is kind of ironic. look, we have to do better.

we know that. we have to learn from our losses. republicans have had since world war ii. we're coming off the biggest. so we have a message that works. look at the census data, though, and tell me today with poverty rates shooting up even higher among latinos and asians that somehow what the democrats have offered has worked for them. and, you know, the best thing we can do is run on our economic platform. it's about creating jobs, it's about lifting people out of poverty and, yes, we're going to reach out and do a better job communicating that message. mistakes made, we're going to learn from them, do better. >> mitt romney said in a conference call to his financial chai chairs, the reason he lost the presidency is the president was giving gifts to those groups. do you agree with that statement and does that help in recruitment of folks? >> look, my view is i've never seen a person in political life

get in trouble for what they did not say. and i'm going to leave it at that. it's best to talk about the positive things. i'm proud of our agenda about trying to grow jobs and about trying to get america back on its feet and working again, and we need to reach out to all voters, all americans, and tell them we're the party of hope and opportunity, of gobs and growth, and about getting the government to be responsive and not just overbearing. so that's what we're getting. >> greg walden of oregon and new nrrc chairman. be well. >> thanks, luke, you too. our political panel will be here next. but first the white house soup of the day. this soup has helped me a lot. roasted chicken and vegetable. it's a classic. it's just as good as day-quil. don't forget to check out our website rundown.msnbc.com. [ female announcer ] with swiffer dusters,

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try aleve d for strong, all day long sinus and headache relief. capitol hill is busy this morning with closed door testimony from former cia director david petraeus. we heard new york republican congressman and intelligence committee member peter king reacting live to what petraeus told him earlier in the show. here is a little more of what he said. >> the spontaneous aspect is minimized right now. it just is. it was pray mayoral a terrorist attack. they also at the time prior to december 14 received information that this was strong involvement and that was not made part of the presentation. >> joining me now democratic strategist and former spokesman for the dccc, doug thoshell, jackie, and roll call's david

drubbinger. a great, great panel. there you see peter king and not really mincing words sort of saying the information coming from the cia september 14 is way different today. republ republicans are holding on to this with very sharp talons. jackie, how do you see this playing out moving forward? >> it's hard to tell because this was like a bigger story before the election. you have the fiscal cliff, the violence in benghazi and the middle east. i think, you know, there will be a lot of hearings, three different committees in the senate with jurisdiction. i think this is going to go on for a while because it's one area the republicans see weakness in the president's position. >> and that's interesting that you say that because if you look at this, it almost seems like the gop wants to put this at the forefront, distract from the fiscal cliff where they have

less bargaining chips. >> well, that could be the case. something happened in benghazi and i don't think we have all the answers yet and there are democrats that want answers. there's a lot of information that will come out. the question in all of this politically does it ever touch the president? what i thought was interesting when he defended susan rice, she was sent out on behalf of the white house. well, who runs the white house? he didn't say state. he didn't say cabinet agency. we still don't know regardless of what we find out and who is responsible, is it actually going to touch him? so far it hasn't. >> look, do you think all the hoopla surrounding general petraeus, his marital issues and the same thing with general allen, coupled with the speculation from republicans that the reason why he was kicked away was because he wasn't going to testify about

benghazi and now we have that testimony. but all of this in general has distracted from the fiscal cliff. does that hurt the democratic messaging machine that the media can talk about these generals whether it be for scandal or about ben gghazi? >> i don't think so. i think with petraeus i think basically you have a situation with him where he will not be floated as a presidential candidate in the future anymore. he clearly has politically was a key adviser to the president, the administration will miss him there. but overall i think that there are sex scandals in this town pretty regularly and it wasn't the first one. it's not going be to be the last one. i don't think this will have a long -term effect on democrats. remember, david petraeus was someone that republicans worshipped. he was put up there as a potential republican presidential candidate. i don't think there's much long

term -- >> let's focus now to the fiscal cliff. obviously the meeting is about to begin, 25 minutes from now. you guys have been around here a while. you've seen a lot of these meetings. most likely a photo op before the weekend. nancy pelosi was saying yesterday that she would welcome a number that both sides could start working toward and some republicans also say that. do you think there is any hope that maybe by just november, the end of november, there could be consensus on, okay. here's the top line where we're going to write the bill to. do you think that is possible? >> i don't want to minimize the difficulty ahead but i definitely think and get the impression from everything that both sides have said post election that there is some hope here in part. and greater hope for an agreement in the shorter term. there will be a lot of work that would have to be done next year to fill in the details but more of a chance of a deal now since you have the same cast of characters back at the table than you would have if mr. romney would have been elected.

they know each other. they've talked about these issues before. they've already winoed down the issues. >> fascinating. if that becomes true. we'll talk more and get other opinions about this. first we have a trivia time. since 1860 how many republican and democratic presidential candidates have lost the general election twice in a row? the answer, three. adlai stevenson, to eisenhower, thomas dewey lost to fdr and william jennings bryan lost to mckinley in both 1896 and 1900. crucified on a cross of gold. if you have a political trivia question e-mail us at daily rundown@msnbc.com. we'll be right back.

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let's bring back our panel. doug, jackie, and david, we were talking about the fiscal cliff. any hope we can get a number by the end of november to start writing this bill and legislation toward? >> can i eye roll a little bit? i think there are a couple questions we need to answer here. first of all you have the same cast of characters as we just discussed that couldn't come to a deal over the debt ceiling but there is a difference here. january 1st everybody's taxes go up. that is a huge threat to people in elective office because everybody's taxes go up. everybody gets really mad. the debt ceiling was more of a hypothetical thing. would it affect us or matter? the other thing we have to look at here is whether they'll try and make a deal. the way you make a deal unless you brow beat somebody into just giving you what you want is finding a way for everybody to win. that is nothing these people have ever been able to do with each other and if they can't do it this time we could be headed

over the cliff. >> would you say that the president and john boehner are actually both in stronger positions today than they were in summer of 2011 so that's good in terms of coming to an agreement. >> of the two the president is much stronger. >> certainly, yes. >> plugs all around. we have to go. doug? >> the lucky dog animal rescue league. they save dogs from high kill shelters. that is where i got my dog chase. go see them at lucky dog animal rescue.org. >> i am a big dog lover. >> i feel terrible now. he has this altruistic. i was self-serving. for all those confused about the fiscal cliff read my q & a in today's "new york times." >> i'll also be self-serving. check out the new and improfld roll call.com. everything on the website is free forever in perpetuity. >> and real quickly, buffalo's back baby. big win over the dolphins last night. reggie bush got nothing after insulting the beautiful women of buffalo. nothing and he liked it.

that is it for this edition of "daily rundown." next we'll have chuck from asia as he travels with president obama. coming up jansing and company. go bills! ♪ [ male announcer ] you've reached the age where you don't back down from a challenge. this is the age of knowing how to make things happen. so, why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex.

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